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    Finger rolls

    • Started by juice43
    • 12 Replies:
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    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 126

    So continuing to enjoy the layout but recently I find that I make many mistakes whenever I have to do any kind of particular finger rolls like spelling the word rat or start, or stuff like that where it's really a dance on the home row. Do you guys know any methods that I can improve on that?

    My speed is currently like 90 wpm on average but my accuracy is usually like 96% which I know can definitely improve and would benefit me everywhere. Is there any kind of specific training that I could do that would help me out with finger rolls and accuracy?

    Colemak typist

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Do you separate those rolls in your mind (r-at, st-art) or try to see them as one motion?

    In general, the most tricky movements are limited by the lack of independence of the weaker fingers. Piano etudes will help, if you have a piano. I don't know of any typing etudes of a similar nature, designed to work rigorously towards the independence and strength of every finger. Well, some typing courses do that but I still think that the piano etudes are more rigorous about it since claviatures for music have been around for several hundred years more than 'typing claviatures'.

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    • Registered: 17-Mar-2008
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    Bidirectional rolls (like rat, where you first go outwards, then inwards) are tricky to do quickly, especially if they involve the ring finger. You could try to practice the words you find the hardest over and over to see if you can learn the motions a bit better.

    I don't personally find "start" very difficult as it consists only of inwards rolls.

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Suddenly it became extremely difficult to type 'contrast' many times quickly. Gah! It's your fault!

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    • Registered: 03-Jul-2009
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    Consider using a quality mechanical keyboard, which will give you proper feedback at each keypress, thus improving your accuracy.

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
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    Mostly I separate the rolls in my mind. When I type I think i-on or r-at thinking of always trying to do some kind of inward roll in my head when most important. I don't own a piano or a music keyboard, so I've never any finger strengthening practice. Colemak is so nice and on the home row, but these rolls that are just impossible, it just like tangles up my fingers. What I've been trying to do is practice typing common words like that to see if I could improve my accuracy because that is mostly what is getting to me.

    Colemak typist

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    • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
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    Keyboard roll etude 1

    uranium ration connie startin' neither contrast niece rats hitherto mine pantheon arts one station truly thinner striking rascal honey faction congratulation sarcastic practical invention you'll July plutonium likely golem neon Armeni kite tactness tied sars funniest contrastion gracefully kutie motion loneliness cart lune punnier probably niece hey years penny they tsar nation June Jane Eyre fine famine noise Reuter hunnie strength czar

    Anyone with programming skills and a word collection, please help to write more keyboard etudes.

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    • From: Aalborg, Denmark
    • Registered: 18-Feb-2011
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    Here's some words to use for training rolls, which I understand to be three or more (i.e., four) keys going in one direction.

    First, simple rolls, i.e., no gaps inside the roll.
    Left hand: >arst>, >ars>, >rst>, <ars< (=sra).
    Right hand: <nei< (=ien), <eio< (=oie), <luy< (=yul), >neio>, >nei>, >eio>.

    === arst:
    barstool
    Barstow
    clearstory
    earstone
    Hearst
    Karsten
    starstruck
    tearstained
    
    === ars:
    arsenal
    avatars
    cars
    coarse
    dollars
    harsh
    Lars
    Mars
    marshal
    narsarsukite
    parse
    radarscope
    Sears
    sparse
    stars
    tears
    varsity
    
    === rst:
    afterstate
    airburst
    airstrip
    Amherst
    Bakerstown
    burst
    cornerstone
    doorstep
    first
    hairstyle
    overstate
    superstar
    thirst
    thunderstruck
    worst
    
    === sra:
    crossrail
    Disraeli
    disrate
    Israel
    lebensraum
    transrational
    
    
    === ien:
    alien
    ambience
    ancient
    audience
    bien
    client
    Dienbienphu
    fiend
    friend
    gradient
    hygiene
    lenient
    O'Brien
    oriental
    patient
    quotient
    sapient
    science
    sienna
    Vienna
    
    === oie:
    joie
    Savoie
    
    === yul:
    embryulcia
    Yulan
    Yule
    Yuletide
    
    === neio:
    gorgoneion
    
    === nei:
    Brunei
    cuneiform
    gneiss
    neighbor
    Neil
    Schneider
    
    === eio:
    meiosis
    pleiotropy
    semeion

    Then, rolls with a gap.
    Left hand: >ar-t>, >a-st>, <ar-t< (=tra), <a-st< (=tsa).
    Right hand: <ne-o< (=oen), <n-io< (=oin), >ne-o>, >n-io>.

    === art:
    apartments
    art
    artisan
    artist
    bartender
    cartoonist
    darted
    Earth
    farther
    garter
    heart
    heartease
    heartened
    heartsoreness
    heartstring
    mart
    nonpartner
    part
    partridge
    restartable
    smart
    start
    Stewartstown
    Stuart
    sugartree
    tartar
    tearthroat
    thwart
    
    === ast:
    abreast
    aftertaste
    alabaster
    Anastasia
    astrograph
    bastard
    castrate
    catastrophe
    contrast
    devastate
    distaste
    fastest
    hasta
    intrastate
    pasta
    pastoral
    postmaster
    rastafari
    sarcastic
    toasters
    ultrafast
    vast
    
    === tra:
    abstract
    Alcatraz
    Amtrak
    astral
    astray
    attract
    betray
    central
    citrate
    contra
    contraremonstrant
    distract
    entrance
    extra
    extraspectral
    intra
    intratracheal
    magistrate
    mantra
    neutral
    outrank
    penetrate
    retract
    straddle
    straight
    straw
    tetranitrate
    trace
    track
    trade
    traffic
    tragic
    trail
    trainee
    tramcars
    trans
    Trans-Australian
    transrational
    trap
    ultraoutrageous
    
    === tsa:
    flotsam
    jetsam
    outsail
    portsale
    tsar
    
    === oen:
    bioengineering
    monoenergetic
    Phoenix
    subpoena
    toenail
    
    === oin:
    Antoine
    appoint
    boing
    booing
    coin
    coincidence
    coining
    coinvent
    conjoin
    doing
    going
    heroine
    join
    knee-joint
    oink
    ointment
    ongoing
    point
    proinclusion
    shooing
    viewpoint
    
    === neo:
    Borneo
    geneological
    Neocene
    neocolonial
    neon
    neoprene
    spontaneous
    
    === nio:
    acrimonious
    Antonio
    antonio
    crinion
    cybernion
    dominion
    harmonious
    ingenious
    junior
    minion
    niobium
    nonionized
    non-union
    onion
    opinioned
    senior
    union

    Of course, there are thousands of words that could be used, I just picked the ones I liked. And while they're not listed as such, there are words where the letters from the roll occur directly before or after the roll, e.g., "start", as mentioned by the OP, "tearstained", "avatars", "lenient".

    Now the words just need to be put together into one or more lectures of reasonable length. Doing them in alphabetical order is probably not very entertaining :-)

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    • Registered: 15-Feb-2016
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    The first time I typed Warcraft, I didn't think it was going to end! :)  I also just had heartbeat on Type Racer. :( 

    Maybe we should call these types of rolls "finger trolls."

    Last edited by Chupo (20-Aug-2017 05:56:04)
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    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Warcraft, yes, hehe. "Troll on the bridge!" :-D

    Individually, the combos 'war', 'cra' and 'ft' aren't so bad but put together in one word they do become fatigueing. Not sure what to do about it.

    I don't see a problem with 'heartbeat' though? I use the Curl(DH) mod that improves the HE bigram; maybe that has something to do with it?

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    • Registered: 15-Feb-2016
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    You're right. "Heartbeat" doesn't seem so bad now. At the time, it just felt awkward compared to the rest of the words.

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
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    There was a "worst words with Colemak" topic a while back. Lots of ugly finger trolls there. :-)

    But fortunately, they're rare. That's what makes a layout good: Making the common stuff better, and the ugly stuff rare.

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    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
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    Wow, it was fun to see that undug from the graveyard.

    I rather enjoy rolls nowadays. Honestly it got better with deliberate practice, specifically through common words as well as etudes and stuff like typeracer and keybr. General practice over long periods of time.

    ColemakDH is helpful in preventing fatigue towards the very center row, so that remaining rolls have more gusto to be carried out with.

    Though I can honestly say, even before the DH life, getting accustomed to the layout was essentially getting accustomed to the rolls. Speed didn't really go much higher than that, but comfort and general consistency is easier to maintain over spurts and tangles.

    Ever since I started typing on this layout I've been wondering what a finger bagel would be... ?

    Last edited by juice43 (29-Nov-2017 06:32:24)

    Colemak typist

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