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    Colemak webpage needs improvements. Shall we help?

    • Started by Mecki
    • 9 Replies:
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    • Registered: 16-Nov-2010
    • Posts: 5

    Hello everyone!

    I'm new to the forum, but I know this webpage for a very long time. I'm not an active Colemak user at the moment, I'm a Dvorak touch typist, but I consider switching. It's still an internal struggle between various pros and cons; I tried switching about a year ago, then fell back to Dvorak, but I'm giving it another try now. Maybe I will post something in the experiences section about my personal experiences with Dvorak and Colemak (I used to be a QWERTY touch typist, and quite a fast one). However, all this has nothing to do with this thread in particular (if this short introduction bothered you, please accept my apologies); I'm no native English speaker, so please forgive my spelling and grammar mistakes.

    I read in the FAQ:

    FAQ said:

    The Colemak website is powered by MediaWiki, and it uses the default template design. The Colemak website will be redesigned in the future. Your help with the web design would be appreciated.

    That is written in the FAQ for as long as I can think back ;-)

    I think Colemak is a great keyboard layout. Whether I will switch to it or not is irrelevant, because the layout is definitely "sound" in many aspects, something I cannot claim about many other layouts out there. I would really like to see it becoming more prominent and a good looking webpage is certainly one of the keys to more success; at least it will not hurt this goal for sure.

    Don't get me wrong, the webpage is not ugly, it looks like the Wikipedia and a lot of people know the Wikipedia, it's prominent and popular. However, the Wikipedia is also always WIP (work in progress), as it is never finished. Articles change all the time, many new articles are added daily. When seeing a webpage that looks like the Wikipedia, I know that this page is using a wiki backend, and a page using a wiki backend usually changes rather frequently, as that's the main reason why people use wiki backends: wiki pages are easily editable. However, if a page changes so frequently, the project it describes is most likely still WIP.

    As long as this page looks like the Colemak layout is WIP, there is pretty much no chance that this keyboard could ever be added to Windows or Mac OS X, no matter how many people would request that from Microsoft/Apple. There are so many alternative keyboard layouts on the web and many of them are WIP and change every 6-8 weeks or so. Unless the layout is rock solid, it has no chance to ever spread to wide audience and won't be considered a serious alternative.

    Colemak seems rock solid to me, it is not WIP, it is finished work. And that is exactly the message the webpage should get across to the visitor. There is no research in progress, the layout won't change tomorrow. Further it must be appealing to visitors since web surfers are spoiled. Lots of text, black and white, little images, boring colors... fine for the Wikipedia, but not really appealing to "spoiled web 2.0 surfers". Not trying to be insulting here, I'm just carrying it to the excess, so please don't take any offense if you are one of those web 2.0 surfers ;-)

    I have not that much free time to spend, but I'm willing to offer some of it for helping to improve this webpage. Maybe other users here are willing to help, too. I'm not a good designer (creating layouts, choosing colors, etc.), but I know HTML, CSS, PHP and some JavaScript if that is of any help.

    Update:
    By the way, the "Try out" link in the main menu is a dead one. Dead links always look highly unprofessional or make the webpage appear abandoned, so I recommend to just kick it out.

    Last edited by Mecki (16-Nov-2010 18:29:13)
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    ^ It's a great idea in fact. Waiting for Shai's response.

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    • From: Ann Arbor, MI
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    Mecki said:

    I have not that much free time to spend, but I'm willing to offer some of it for helping to improve this webpage. Maybe other users here are willing to help, too. I'm not a good designer (creating layouts, choosing colors, etc.), but I know HTML, CSS, PHP and some JavaScript if that is of any help.

    PHP and JavaScript are far overused/abused.  For something like this, please don't use either.

    I wrote some small scripts that I use to generate my personal website.  Basically all the content is written in markdown, and other stuff (like a sidebar) are hand-written HTML.  These scripts then just tie everything together, so you can make some quick changes, run the script, and get on with your life.

    Scripts and content: https://bitbucket.org/jrick/website/src

    Website: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrick/

    If you want something better, use werc: http://werc.cat-v.org/

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    jrick said:

    PHP and JavaScript are far overused/abused.  For something like this, please don't use either.

    Don't get me wrong here, I'm not the kind of person that will use PHP or JavaScript for no particular reason. I'm totally on your side that way too many webpages use these technologies for no particular reason. I just wanted to point out, that I'm able to write either kind of code, if required. Of course a static HTML/CSS page is always preferred, and if it only because serving plain HTML/CSS file is far less stressing for a server than running the simplest PHP script.

    However, right now the page is entirely PHP powered, methinks. It has a wiki backend, so all content is most likely stored in database and PHP is used to retrieve it. I don't want to necessarily change that, unless this is requested/desired, of course. Either way is fine for me. The question is how often do people need to change content of it. Of course you can also use both at the same time. There is no reason why not 90% of the pages can be static and 10% of them (e.g. the FAQ) is dynamic, to make it easier to change it, without having to load HTML pages into a HTML editor. As you pointed out, meta languages can also be statically translated to HTML only when they change instead of transforming them on each page request.

    Markdown is a very nice language, BTW. I prefer it over Wikitext. Other nice languages are:

    * APT - https://maven.apache.org/doxia/referenc … ormat.html
    * ASCII Doc - https://powerman.name/doc/asciidoc-compact
    * Creole - http://www.wikicreole.org/

    However, even BBCode is an option; the extended version also supports list items, but no headlines by default. I personally prefer a crossover of APT and ASCII Doc, but I can also write HTML in plain text editor :-) And if a custom syntax is desired, I can also write a parser for that in PHP or in Perl; I know both languages pretty well. I don't know Python or Ruby, so I cannot help if one of these two languages is desired.

    Last edited by Mecki (17-Nov-2010 15:35:04)
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    I'm a little stunned that a Dvorak user would be thinking about actively promoting a layout they are not familiar with - that's blind faith!

    I think media wiki is fantastic.  If it's a style / theme issue, then you can always drop in a new theme.

    Presentation is over rated in my eyes. I use my own style sheet for websites to make theme more readable/usable.  I never even noticed that the site was in media wiki.  I looked for the first time in google chrome just now.  For accessibility I'd recommend  a jump to navigation/search link at the top of the page and possibly language translations.

    Most information is readily available on the site addressing the questions: what is Colemak, why would I want to use it and how do I use it? Plus the FAQ's and forum are there for help.

    If I were to change anything I'd make the navigation clearer and possibly more verbose.  Defining the areas of the site a little more.  Perhaps the multilingual page could have more focus.

    What I'd like to see more of is the rational behind the layout.  And possibly some cherry picked anecdotes - though it's always hard to trust the validity of these.  And maybe a link or description about touch typing.

    FYI OSX snow leopard has Colemak support baked in.  Not sure about windows 7?
    Edit: ^apparently not so...^

    Edit:
    Not wanting to dampen your spirits or your call to rally though...  It sounds like you think Colemak would benefit from a little re-branding - that's one for the designers and marketeers me thinks.

    Last edited by pinkyache (18-Nov-2010 12:35:21)

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    pinkyache said:

    I'm a little stunned that a Dvorak user would be thinking about actively promoting a layout they are not familiar with - that's blind faith!

    Switching to Dvorak was blind faith (I didn't even look for alternatives when I decided to switch), considering switching to Colemak (since so far I do Dvorak by day and Colemak by night; no decision has been made) is a much more elaborated consideration :-P I wouldn't claim either layout is better in general at the moment, they are just different, but sometimes being different from an objective point of view already means being better from a subjective point of view... if that makes any sense to you.

    pinkyache said:

    FYI OSX snow leopard has Colemak support baked in.  Not sure about windows 7?

    I have upgraded one Mac to Snow Leopard (from Leopard) and I have bought another one with Snow Leopard pre-installed and neither one had Colemak on it; at least not under that name. Unless I'm just too blind or stupid to find it, I doubt it is baked in. It is not hard to install, though, just put the file you can download from here to either the system wide "Keyboard Layouts" folder or to the one of your user and that's it. No restart required, no admin rights required (not unless you want it system wide), just pick it from the list of available keyboard layouts after copying the file to that directory.

    Especially Apple is very conservative in such aspects; the company might be innovative in general, but if Steve Wozniak wasn't a Dvorak typist, I doubt they had even added Dvorak as an available default layout. I think the iPad was the first (and still only?) iOS device with Dvorak support, the iPhones had no support for it (though this might have changed).

    BTW, can you actually say "typist" or is that offensive, possibly debasing the person in question?

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    Mecki said:

    BTW, can you actually say "typist" or is that offensive, possibly debasing the person in question?

    Is "cyclist" offensive?  Actually, someone (John Forester?) thought cyclist was too specialist (!) a term for someone who uses a bicycle without being zealous about it, but nevertheless showed basic common sense in traffic.  He preferred "cycler" for such a person.  For someone who used a bicycle because they had no other option, and were in fact in his opinion incompetent at it, he suggested the term "person on bicycle" or "POB".

    By analogy, then: typist, typer, and person at keyboard.

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    pinkyache said:

    FYI OSX snow leopard has Colemak support baked in.  Not sure about windows 7?

    Sorry if I got that totally wrong!  I could have sworn I saw Colemak listed the last time I changed the layout on a sparkling new mac; wishful thinking on my part perhaps. 

    Sorry about that.  Boo.

    Last edited by pinkyache (17-Nov-2010 23:47:39)

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    pinkyache said:
    pinkyache said:

    FYI OSX snow leopard has Colemak support baked in.  Not sure about windows 7?

    Sorry if I got that totally wrong!  I could have sworn I saw Colemak listed the last time I changed the layout on a sparkling new mac; wishful thinking on my part perhaps. 

    Sorry about that.  Boo.

    Colemak a default in Snow Leopard,  man that would have been big news and a reason to upgrade.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    Mecki: Thanks for wanting to help!  :)

    I don't agree that presentation is all that overrated. For me it's not important nowadays I guess, since I'm already a fan of Colemak and navigate these fora just fine (although I hate trying to find my way around the other pages here). And when I first came here I was very enthusiastic about keyboard layouts and would've found my way even if the site were a lot messier. However, the tidy content of the Colemak site in comparison to others did influence my first impression and that is important.

    Many people browsing around will give a site about keyboard layouts a quick look to decide if it's worth reading more thorougly or just another 'soon-to-die pet project' instance in the field. A solid graphical impression will help.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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