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Heretic

  • Started by bph
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Well I've been using a mechanical for about 3 months now

And I'm about to say something heretical

I'm not convinced that mechanical is much better than rubber dome

There, I said it, judge me..

I had the realisation that despite my asthetic attraction to a planck it would be a disaster for my typing as I would lose the ability to use a laptop keyboard - which is still handy every now and then

Just to add a little extra spice to my heresy, I am starting to have the vague feeling that I actually slightly prefer rubber domes to mechanicals

Feel free to refer to me as 'he-who-must-not-be-named' from here on in

I am sticking with colemak though so its not all bad..

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Maybe it depends on the switches.

What kind of switches does it have?

Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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Most of the fastest people on typeracer use laptops. Mechanicals don't have much correlation to speed

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@steve blues
@MW maybe a scissor keyboard (apple style or suchlike) is the answer? Nah - I don't think so actually, I think I'll stick with the line that rubber-domes are actually fit for purpose.. they are 'good enough'

Last edited by bph (16-Mar-2017 15:39:57)
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Its been a few years since I owned my IBM Model M and my Unicomp. I do remember that I really liked the audible and tactile feedback from the mechanicals. No idea if I was faster or not. I'd guess no, because of the deeper key travel

Last edited by misterW (16-Mar-2017 16:25:17)
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@MW to a certain extent it could simply be a case of 'what I'm used to', maybe 3 months is too short, but in that time, my WPM has become pretty much equivalent on both types.

I have a suspicion that I don't actually like the noise, I'm sensitive to that sort of thing, can't work with any noise present or music on

It could also be the minila is a little cramped, though I think the actual key spacing is the same, albeit theres fewer of them

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bph said:

I have a suspicion that I don't actually like the noise, I'm sensitive to that sort of thing, can't work with any noise present or music on

It the noise is offputting, you could try the clears, or else the Matias quiet switches, which are in my Ergo Pro (and are indeed quiet)  :P

Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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In mech area you may experiment with different types of switches, they feel very differently as you type on them. I found out that I like both linear switches and tactile and prefer one or other depending of my mood,and I do not like clicky switches. All rubber domes are the same. I mean the budget mass-production rubber domes. They all have hard bottoming which I found unpleasant. You can change keycaps for your mechanical but not for rubber dome. Even if not making that a hobby, I believe that mech keyboard is a good tool to use daily.

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bph said:

I had the realisation that despite my asthetic attraction to a planck it would be a disaster for my typing as I would lose the ability to use a laptop keyboard - which is still handy every now and then

As I understand that, people who chose planck start to use it everywhere, even with laptop. It is doable as the plack is very portable. IMO, the laptop keyboard is the worst possible kind of keyboard. It has almost no feedback, the worse of it I may think about is only touch typing on iPad screen. So why to worry about been able to use it? :)

Last edited by ckofy (16-Mar-2017 19:05:41)
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@bph You should use what you feel confortable with. I used to absolutely love the old Macbook Pro keyboard, which I think is supposed to have a short travelling distance. And I think
that's what I love about it. I loved it so much that I got an apple keyboard (for desktop) which was basically exactly the same. However I started getting pains in my wrist to I switch to Kinesis Advantage. The KA uses Cherry MX swtiches which are supposed to be among the best. At the time I still prefered the feeling of the MPB. Having said that, the KA is good (I mean the switchest) and still works like a charm after more than 6 years of daily use. Now, I have Thinkpad laptop and the keyboard is great (IMO).

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Not all rubber domes are bad! Laptop boards are often quite good actually, as they commonly use scissor/chiclet jigs which give a little travel and actuation to the key. For many, that's just nice. I like the feel of my Lenovo ThinkPad keyboard.

Many swear to very light and even linear actuation, a.k.a. the "typing on a cloud of boobs" experience. I believe in some tactile feed back to avoid bottoming out (that is, hitting the key so hard that your finger gets a slight shock from the fully depressed key – this is considered bad).

Short travel distance isn't necessarily bad though! Confer the laptop and many Apple boards.

I think I'd consider Cherry MX Brown or similar switches if I were to get a mechanical keyboard these days. I'm still fond of my Unicomp buckling spring board, but it's a bit of a nostalgia thing...

    Brown.gif
    Cherry MX Brown key switch, with low actuation force but a tactile bump

Last edited by DreymaR (17-Mar-2017 10:53:59)

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I have both (a Thinkpad and Cherry MX browns on my KA) and I think I prefer the feel of the Thinkpad keys. I like that the key actually stops and the feel of it.
With the KA I don't use the full travelling distance (which is too long to fully reach the bottom) and stop pressing just past the "click". I guess that's how it's intended to be used.

Note that I am only talking about the feeling of the keys not the overall keyboard. Overall, the KA is vastly superior (as it gives a wide/angle layout for free, and more ...)

PS: I have been typing this reply using both keyboard and in fact, I'm not even sure which one I prefer. I think they are just both great ;-)

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By convention, "mechanical keyboard" is used to denote a keyboard with mechanical switches; that is, individual key switches with mechanics as opposed to a rubber dome membrane covering the whole board.

Certainly, by nitpicking you're right – the action upon a rubber dome is technically also mechanical force so an alien might not understand the term. There are many terms that don't follow their etymology rigidly but are nevertheless well understood by convention.

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Your last post is indeed the right interpretation as I've understood it  – above I used the word "mechanics". The one before seems like straw man argumentation? Who is the "you" that assigns these attributes to mechanical switches in general – and is this assignment so strong as to approach definition, as you seem to be suggesting?

Certainly, some mechanical keyboard enthusiasts will throw out statements about the genre. Mostly, I see those as "there exist A with attribute B" rather than "all A have attribute B" statements. ;-)

Last edited by DreymaR (21-Mar-2017 13:28:44)

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There are three men on a train. One of them is an economist and one of them is a logician and one of them is Davkol. And they have just crossed the border into Scotland (I don't know why they are going to Scotland) and they see a brown cow standing in a field from the window of the train (and the cow is standing parallel to the train). And the economist says, 'Look, the cows in Scotland are brown.' And the logician says, 'No. There are cows in Scotland of which at least one is brown.' And Davkol says, 'No. There is at least one cow in Scotland, of which one side appears to be brown.'

I was having a bad day I think and have mellowed since..

It may be that the minila is somehow a little cramped? I would like to test-drive a 'normal' ISO mechanical (apologies in advance davkol for the terminology), maybe with browns to see if its a bit quieter to boot..

Actuation force on my mechanical is noticeably less than the rubber-dome, thats a fact - just not sure whether thats good or bad

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Reading /r/mk I see that "mechanical keyboards" and accompanying them attributes are collector items at first, having a collector items prices. The most prominent example is artisan keycaps.

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logitech k260 vs minila blue

keycap difference could be part of it, also perhaps the unusual minila offset caused by the left shift size..

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i've got some o-rings on their way to try out

haven't arrived yet though

are you saying your not so keen on blues?

Last edited by bph (21-Mar-2017 17:09:02)
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It's nice to watch an aficionado's assessments like this. :-)

I may have inadvertently skimmed past it, but what are your favourite switches for text typing then, davkol?

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I'd be interested to know too..

I noticed you can get an apple scissor switch keyboard for not too many bucks (about £20 2nd hand) - might be quite a nice option?

Although I have claimed to like the clickety-clackety in the past, I'm now starting to think it irritates me

Potentially quiet is good?

I could do with popping into the keyboardco.com at some point and trying a whole bunch of stuff at once

Last edited by bph (22-Mar-2017 11:09:40)
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well as an experiment i've temporarily ditched the filco for the mush-meister

my feeling is that its good enough and much quieter

my use-case is programming, so reasonably typing heavy, but with bouts of thinking thrown in to break it up..

i may revisit the filco in the goodness of time

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may I venture a fourth?

- the typist who belatedly realised that cheap rubber domes are actually good enough and fit for purpose

excellence being the enemy of the very good and all that?

I reckon there prob is a better keyboard than the K260 out there for my needs, but its prob a standard ISO or tenkeyless, not a 60%, 40% or one of the 'exotics' (ergodox, maltron etc.)

Last edited by bph (24-Mar-2017 12:20:18)
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I don't feel that I belong in any of your types?
• I don't want to be heard, so I'm not getting a keyboard because it's showy!
• Also, I'm not a typing brute who want to mash. Ugh.
• I don't need to be completely silent either. Silence is fine, but no main attraction to me.
• I abhor typing on a flat surface, because I want tactile feedback. I like physical keys.

Where in your scheme does that put me? I know you said it's an oversimplification and all that, but isn't it somewhat of an artificial scheme?

Last edited by DreymaR (24-Mar-2017 21:41:44)

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Ah. Well, in that case I guess I'm the press type. I play the piano, after all. :-)

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