• You are not logged in.

    Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    • Started by AndrewZorn
    • 13 Replies:
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 01-Sep-2009
    • Posts: 1
    01-Sep-2009 09:33:09#1 Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    I've learned I have no idea what my original QWERTY speed was... I used to think I had an estimate, but based on the typing tests, I think I overestimated.

    Switched to Dvorak for about 5mins.  This included popping off keys.  While reveling in the knowledge of my new thing and reading about it I found out about Colemak.  Well, at least I didn't learn Dvorak thoroughly...

    After about a week I am at 50wpm according to http://hi-games.net/typing-test,300/ (5mins for a real man)... which isnt that close to my old speed, but still really good progress.  Most of that I feel like is errors, too... the worst is pushing D instead of G.  I feel like without so many errors I would be over 60.

    The best thing I found (not that I tried it any other way) was an outright refusal to switch back; moving the keys helped this, as it reduced the possibility of giving up without further effort.  It took forever just to respond to emails... but even after about 3 days I got the hang of it and knew I wasn't going back.

    I basically am doing this now to increase the known user base of Colemak.  I think Dvorak is stealing some potential Colemak users... if you are going to switch to something unpopular, mind as well go for the better one.  Except there are things like the Carpalx layout, and custom layouts... but I guess there is SOME value in using a layout that is at least recognized by more than a couple of people and has gained some attention.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 06-Oct-2008
    • Posts: 71
    01-Sep-2009 19:20:09#2 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    Depending what you do with your keyboard - if it is only english maybe it is wiser to use QIDO (http://www.keyghost.com/qido/) and Dvorak layout. Running software or otherwise mocking with keyboard layout sometimes is not possible, but this tiny plug should fit well in such situation ;) In my experience switching back to qwerty degrades alternative layout experience if you are above 50 WPM. I could even easily use different layouts but that made me stay on 50WPM plateau - if you want to be quicker stay with only one.

    Of course I emailed KeyGhost if they could do colemak version of this plug ;) Hope they do one day!

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 03-Jul-2009
    • Posts: 189
    01-Sep-2009 21:26:59#3 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)
    bombadil said:

    Of course I emailed KeyGhost if they could do colemak version of this plug ;) Hope they do one day!

    I've asked them for more: allowing users to customize embedded layouts (I'm a Dvorak typist, but I use a customized layout both to type Italian and to overcome some shortcomings of European keyboards).

    I'm inviting forum members to drop a line to KeyGhost Ltd and let them know that there are people interested. Their email address is at the bottom of Qido page: http://www.keyghost.com/qido/

    Cheers

    Last edited by spremino (01-Sep-2009 21:41:59)

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 30-Aug-2009
    • Posts: 8
    01-Sep-2009 21:57:48#4 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)
    spremino said:

    I'm inviting forum members to drop a line to KeyGhost Ltd and let them know that there are people interested.

    I did it last weekend and haven't received any reply so far. Another interesting question is what happens if I have layouts for multiple languages installed (say, Russian ЙЦУКЕН and English QWERTY). If I understand it correctly, the Russian one won't work, and I wonder if there's any workaround.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 03-Jul-2009
    • Posts: 189
    01-Sep-2009 22:10:28#5 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)
    dfyz said:

    Another interesting question is what happens if I have layouts for multiple languages installed (say, Russian ЙЦУКЕН and English QWERTY). If I understand it correctly, the Russian one won't work, and I wonder if there's any workaround.

    As I understand it: for the Russian layout to work, you should both enable it on your system and disable the device (using Num Lock).

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 23
    • From: Belgium
    • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 480
    02-Sep-2009 09:00:10#6 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    This KeyGhost thing looks nice, but apart from being able to support other keyboard layouts (Colemak, ...) in "enabled" mode, it should also be able to support something else than Qwerty in "disabled" mode.  Otherwise this will be unusable on an Azerty, Qwertz or non-US Qwerty keyboards...

    Edit: I've sent them an e-mail to suggest this.

    Last edited by ghen (02-Sep-2009 09:08:30)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 06-Oct-2008
    • Posts: 71
    02-Sep-2009 12:55:18#7 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)
    ghen said:

    This KeyGhost thing looks nice, but apart from being able to support other keyboard layouts (Colemak, ...) in "enabled" mode, it should also be able to support something else than Qwerty in "disabled" mode.  Otherwise this will be unusable on an Azerty, Qwertz or non-US Qwerty keyboards...

    In my understanding in OFF mode it supports anything - it just pasthrough what goes on the wire.

    I would love to have such device so in that way I could remap the keycaps on my keyboard and attach another qwerty keyboard for guests. For support of Russian and Colemak I would suggest doing the same ;)

    Of course I have suggested KeyGhost that I would love to have ability to define my own layout. However with my embedded software experience I know that adding this functionality require some work and might require different hardware solution. Putting fixed layout instead of one of dvorak versions should be easy to do but I also haven't got any response to my letter.

    Anyway, I have in mind designing such device, but I'm estimating that It could take me circa 4moths of evenings work to understand the USB protocol stack (for serving host, client, composite device etc.) and desig it from scratch so I google from time to time if there is any  solution easy to adopt ;-) So far besides QIDO I was considering exchanging keyboard microcontroller with USB demo board - AT90USBKey - It should be capable of driving any keyboard. However it cost over 100$ and in the end I will have only one keyboard - saddly it is not portable.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 23
    • From: Belgium
    • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 480
    02-Sep-2009 14:04:57#8 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)
    bombadil said:

    In my understanding in OFF mode it supports anything - it just pasthrough what goes on the wire.

    In passthrough mode, you'd still have to configure your OS for AZERTY or whatever, and then when you switch the device to Dvorak the result will be completely garbled...

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 03-Jul-2009
    • Posts: 189
    02-Sep-2009 16:48:08#9 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)
    ghen said:
    bombadil said:

    In my understanding in OFF mode it supports anything - it just pasthrough what goes on the wire.

    In passthrough mode, you'd still have to configure your OS for AZERTY or whatever, and then when you switch the device to Dvorak the result will be completely garbled...

    I think so.

    I understand that the device's assumption is that you are using Qwerty, therefore it just swaps letters' scan codes. It should work with any Qwerty based layout.

    OTOH, I don't think such a device can swap symbols, therefore even where it was programmable you couldn't customize your layout arbitrarily (you could move keys, not symbols).

    Last edited by spremino (02-Sep-2009 16:50:09)

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 06-Oct-2008
    • Posts: 71
    02-Sep-2009 17:24:09#10 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)
    spremino said:

    OTOH, I don't think such a device can swap symbols, therefore even where it was programmable you couldn't customize your layout arbitrarily (you could move keys, not symbols).

    Yes, support for moving symbols require more software tricks but it is possible to implement ;) If you were to swap colon and semicolon for exmaple, then pressing the button should send shift+button and pressing shift and button should send only button code. In software world any protocol can be translated into other...

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 211
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,345
    02-Sep-2009 22:02:23#11 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    That's just what I'd need for my Playstation keyboard! Somehow, the PS3 doesn't support layout fiddling...

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 30-Aug-2009
    • Posts: 8
    05-Oct-2009 07:16:38#12 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    QIDO's helpdesk has replied to my letter. As of right now, there's no support for Colemak, but they are working on adding programmer's Dvorak and they promised to look into if would be possible to include Colemak as well. No estimates on when to expect the new version were mentioned, though.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 23
    • From: Belgium
    • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 480
    05-Oct-2009 12:43:49#13 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    I received the same reply today. :-)

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 24-May-2008
    • Posts: 23
    05-Oct-2009 14:15:50#14 Re: Colemak switch (what else can a title describe?)

    On a kinesis contour keyboard, one can remap keys in firmware. So the entire OS is qwerty, but your keyboard is colemak. Good for pair programming, makes QIDO unnecessary.

    Offline
    • 0