Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position. (Page 2) - General

DreymaR
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26-Feb-2010 09:59:48#26 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

'A-Frame' is a strange name I think? Maybe you could explain it. I've taken to calling it the 'Angle ANSI' mod. The ZXCVB shift I've been using before I call the 'Angle ISO' mod.

The Wide mods I give weird names based on which key sits in the old right bracket position (#1b): WideISO1a1b is the simplest one where only one column shifts and the bracket keys get split up. I include the Angle shift in all the WideISO mods as anything else would be silly in my opinion. WideANSI is pretty much Kalixiri's mod (except that the brackets versus parentheses issue isn't a matter of moving keys but mapping glyphs so I keep that out of this), and WideISO2b1b the ISO mod most similar to it (with the backslash on the upper row instead of the home row where the ISO board usually has it). WideISO351b is the mod where the /? key is on the upper row for ease of access.

I now use the WideISO1a1b mod because it's the least invasive (unless you count separating the bracket keys as very invasive - which based on my experience with it doesn't have to be the case at all). On our Norwegian keyboard at home the brackets are letter keys for the special Norwegian æøå letters and moving away the fairly common å letter (on the left bracket key) turned out to be too confusing and annoying. The ø and æ seem to be okay. In fact, I've moved the laptop key caps physically and installed the registry remaps globally, and my wife who isn't a big fan of keyboard modding now uses the WideISO1a1b mod without complaining! Big success there, but neither me nor the wife were happy with the other Wide mods at home.

The WideISO1a1b mod: All changes are kept within the row

You wanted an image showing the whereabouts of QWERTY and Dvorak as well? A bit heavy on the info, but here it is.

The placement of the /? key on the middle lower row isn't perfect, but it's an acceptable price to pay I think and considering the bigger picture I don't think there are better options for the ISO board (although different people will probably have different opinions on this!). The splitting of the brackets isn't bad at all. It's quite different to write BBS tags now of course, with the [/sometag] now involving two index finger stretches and one short little finger one instead of three little finger exercises. Works for me, but if I were to do heavy-duty coding in a bracket-rich language I'd probably make me a Tomlu-style extended layout for the coding punctuation.

Last edited by DreymaR (19-Dec-2014 11:18:13)

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ghen
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26-Feb-2010 11:51:48#27 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

DreymaR said:

The placement of the /? key on the middle lower row isn't perfect, but it's an acceptable price to pay I think and considering the bigger picture I don't think there are better options for the ISO board (although different people will probably have different opinions on this!).

As an intensive UNIX command-line user, I found the /? placement to be critical to the usability of the wide layout. I put /? on the original \| position, and moved the lesser used \| (for character escapes and pipes) to the central column. Even for most Windows users, I guess slashes (in URL's) are more common than backslashes (in filepaths) nowadays.

Aesthetically, I also prefer to move the =+ to the 6^ position, and put 6 on the right-hand side. That way, the central column between the hands is visually a nice diagonal.

The splitting of the brackets isn't bad at all. It's quite different to write BBS tags now of course, with the [/sometag] now involving two index finger stretches and one short little finger one instead of three little finger exercises. Works for me, but if I were to do heavy-duty coding in a bracket-rich language I'd probably make me a Tomlu-style extended layout for the coding punctuation.

My heavy bracket-using language is regular expressions (in grep, sed, perl, ...). But their placement matters less to me, as I didn't touch-type these keys properly anyway.

On a regular (non-wide) keyboard, I've also considered swapping [{ and ]} with -_ and =+, to bring these last two (esp. the dash) in a closer position.

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DreymaR
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26-Feb-2010 13:21:36#28 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

To me it's about making sure all your changes are really necessary ones. I touch-type the 6 with my left on a normal board (which feels best as it's a slightly shorter stretch and it falls more naturally when your wrists are kept straight in my opinion) and consequently trying it out in the right-hand position turned out to be a real annoyance. So I went back to Kalixiri's way. To me, both the placement of the 6 key and the brackets turned out to be initially ruled by aesthetics which were subsequently overruled by more practical considerations! And typing should be more about what works well than about what looks nice. Now that I'm used to it, I think that either way looks equally nice so 'optics' turns out to be too much a matter of habit and whims anyway. Keeping all the shifting to the right hand weighs in a little too.

On a board that's got an inherently wrong row stagger for your hands' ergonomy, I don't feel that much weight can be put on the visually nice diagonals. The recommended standard fingering scheme that makes every finger follow a straight(-oid) line has in my experience been an ergonomic failure and I strongly advise using curved assignment paths based on how the fingers naturally stretch out from a good starting position (with straight wrists of course!). So I don't care so much for those diagonals.

I see your point about the minus and plus keys, but I'm thinking I'll be using an 'extend' mode with a numpad and those keys easily reachable, and possibly also a coding extension where both brackets and those keys are logically placed. So for me, they aren't bad really. The minus key is all right and my major gripe is with the =+ key: I think the plus should be easier to reach than that! So on my NumPad extension the plus will obviously be home row material. Again, the movement of these two keys in the standard setup doesn't feel sufficiently necessary to be implemented in my opinion. A bit like interchanging colon and semicolon, which I tried out for a long time before ditching it again because it kept confusing me. I see that Dvorak has done it though. The idea is good - but it's hard to say whether it's necessary good or just feels good.

The /? placement is the main reason I've kept the 'WideISO351b' mod (slash on the old right-bracket position for ease of reach) available even though I now use the 'WideISO1a1b' one (less changes; keeps the left-bracket in place which is good for national layouts). I wouldn't move the apostrophe away though as it's one of the common punctuation signs and deserves to be kept in place both for normal typing and coding purposes. So I found the slash/question key well enough placed on the upper row. Keeping it in the lower middle isn't so bad once you get used to it though - but that is still the highest price to pay for the benefits of the 1a1b mod I think.

Another observation: In my WideISO1a1b mod, the \| key ends up in the middle of the board which optically looks like too good a position but it isn't really. A two-key stretch on the home row isn't all that easy when you're keeping your wrists straight! So the /? key on the bottom row is really a lot easier to reach - which is as it should be as that's used in normal typing.

Last edited by DreymaR (30-Nov-2011 14:48:48)

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cevgar
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27-Feb-2010 03:04:16#29 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Ah, I don't mean to interrupt, but if I can squeeze in edgewise here I'll explain the "A-Frame" title. Much like the "MK-Type" that I'm having so much fun with, this one was also inspired a slew of reasons, but deciding factor was a fictional vehicle. Yep, that there layout was named after the Star Wars A-Wing fighter. The more logical reasoning is that the original A-Frame set the Arm Angle into an A shape, much like tent frame defines a tent's shape. There was also that A as in Angle. Perhaps I should have named the keytar after a vehicle too. The TIE-Boarder would borrow nicely from both the necktie vertical position and the infamous TIE-Bomber. Gives the complete wrong mental image though.

That all being said if you want to switch the name for your LL-shift to Angle ANSI, we can go with that. It is more your baby than mine. Perhaps it should have a separate entry in the index as well? I don't want to give simple key variants separate entries (too much work), but there is a whole row shift involved... I'll add it to the index.

Ok, that is all I wanted to say. Carry on.

... actually, I also wanted to say that this layout stuff would be so much easier if instead of the keys [,<] [.>] [/?] [\|] and [1!] we had [,.] [?!] [/\] [<>] and [1|]. Yeah, that is all.

Last edited by cevgar (27-Feb-2010 03:18:39)

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spremino
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01-Mar-2010 10:10:01#30 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

DreymaR said:

There are quite a few layouts up there; did you have any particular one in mind spremino, or just the general widening concept?

Am I missing something? I can't find the layout I was talking about :-/

I was talking about layouts with the upper row keys on the number row:

Colemak Ultra-Wide Vanilla
  (Tab)qwfpg- =jluy;(BkSpc)
(Bkspc)ARSTd[ ]hNEIO'
(Shift)zxcvb\ /km,.(ENTER)
       `1234567890(RSHIFT)

Keys on the number row are shifted more, therefore I find uncomfortable to reach for them on keyboards with non-flat keycaps.

DreymaR said:

I'm using a Wide ISO layout now (both the simplest Wide and ZXCVB mods) on different boards including a Unicomp Customizer and an IBM Model M, and I can't say I understand why it should be a problem on non-flat caps?

Same here, and it is more comfortable than standard one.

I apologize for not being clear about what I was talking about.

Dvorak typist here. Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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DreymaR
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01-Mar-2010 10:18:38#31 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

I like Star Wars references, and the A-Wing is an awesome vehicle! I did get the 'A', mostly - but wasn't too sure about the 'Frame' part. Tent frame, you say? Might as well go the full nine yards and call it the 'A-Wing mod' then! :) And since in fact the keyboard would be the element holding the two 'rafters' (arms) that make up the bulk of the actual frame, together at an angle, it might instead be named after that corresponding element of a roof construction (the English name of which I don't know unfortunately)? It's not as if the arms are wrapped over a frame, but merely held together at the 'apex'!

Actually, my Norwegian keyboards have a <> keys at least... and I really don't like it. When I type brackets I often get the wrong one because I can't remember which one was the shifted version! Even after years of useage this problem remained. So I don't think I'd want a key with both slashes on, and I certainly wouldn't want both brackets. It's also better to have the brackets on different fingers to avoid same-finger and near-same-finger bracket digraphs! I suppose the same would apply to a ?! key for the people who still use interrobangs - but I'm not sure how many do anymore except for myself. On a side note, having separate bracket keys next to each other makes for some nice back/forward-type shortcut mappings!

Spremino: Thanks for clearing that up. Good point about the half-key row stagger between the new home and upper rows - I can imagine that it could create issues.

Last edited by DreymaR (01-Mar-2010 10:21:25)

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cevgar
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02-Mar-2010 20:43:51#32 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

About the 'Frame' thing. Actually I was trying to come up with another construction term myself. I wasn't thinking roofing exactly, but regardless the right word simply wouldn't come to mind. I didn't want to use wing in the name, as the elbow positions for the A-Frame aren't as horrendous as in some of my other layouts. Still, I was already thinking Star Wars, which lead me to think of MechWarrior. Of course mechs lead me to think of anime, and anime to 'Code Geass' and the 'Knightmare Frames'. It is kind of embarrassing in retrospect, more so if one considers that I've never played MechWarrior, and I hated Code Geass. Funny the way the human mind works, isn't it?

Anyway, I hadn't considered the problems with having both brackets on the same key. I can see how that would be an issue. It seemed like such a good idea too. I mean the semi-colon and the colon are on the same key, it just seemed to make sense. Oh well. On the same note, the Spanish layout chooses to pair the [,;] and [.:]. Not a bad idea either, but again, all the paired keys are left and right, not on top of each other. (I wouldn't have known this but DreymaR's GoldTouch image peaked my curiosity. Found a new one with a cheap 'buy now' option on ebay, but it has the Spanish Layout. Decided to take a look at the layout anyway.)

I'm glad we cleared up what layout we were talking about. A comment on the Double Wide was pretty unexpected. I had figured everything other than the single wide and angle mods were dead and gone by now, and if it weren't for ghen's support of the right hand 6 I'd have figured those as sleepers too. But yes, the Double Wide upper right row stagger is kinda awkward. Especially for the J. That is the problem with all row shifted home positions though. You end up trading the half and quarter key shifts between the bottom and upper rows. Unless you also turn the whole board upside down, and then flip the F-keys and-... sorry, no new layouts, I know.

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DreymaR
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09-Mar-2010 10:32:05#33 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Hmmm... the number row seems a little annoying at times. The A-WingFrameThingy got off easy there, hehe. Having a key lodged into the digit sequence is confusing and still makes me mishit keys before I realize what's going on, and I still sometimes miss having the =+ key to the right. Furthermore, it's ugly and it messes up my 'extend' mappings (since F12 now sits between F6 and F7 unless I remap it all and then F7 onwards don't sit on key 7 onwards which is as confusing again).

I'm now thinking that if you were to type a lot of numbers on the number row you'd easily move your hands together a bit while moving them up there, and if you only type a few numbers the stretch to the number row feels okay even when the home row is a key wider. Maybe that's just my long and dexterous fingers? Since I have a straight right wrist while typing, I feel that reaching one more key width into the middle for the '7' key wouldn't really be a problem and the other fingers also seem to follow suit. And the stretches up to the number row feel relatively different from the close-to-home-row typing anyway so I think there's some homing involved no matter what.

There has been a lot of discussion on whether to type the digit '6' with the left or right hand. With a wide home row, the stretch to the '7' key on an unwidened number row is the same as the stretch to the '6' key on an unmodded keyboard so it isn't bad (even if I still choose to use the left hand on the '6' key due to a slightly shorter stretch).

Not sure if a really really experienced home row typist could get confused at moving the right-hand columns but not the number row, but I think I'm about to try it out for myself at least. Visually, it's even less change than the previous mods and time will show how it feels - for me at least. Maybe it feels like less of a change too, or maybe it gets confusing (but if so, more confusing than now or less?).

The worst thing about shifting the middle rows but not the number row may be the hyphen key: Will it change fingering? That's not good. One idea might be to swap only the hyphen and =+ keys but to me that seems a bit silly.

*sigh* off to make new files and test it out, then...

[Mini-update a couple of days in: Grrr, that's confusing too! More later.]

[Update March 12th: It isn't working. Was worth a try maybe, but when I'm unprepared I'll mistype numbers and it's not worth that. The hyphen key was easier to cope with, but instead of making the number row better it turned out for the worse.]

[update March 18th: Back to the split number row, I don't think it's annoying anymore. That's that then for me. Visual aesthetics be damned - I'm typing!]

Last edited by DreymaR (18-Mar-2010 09:56:10)

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DreymaR
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26-Mar-2010 13:59:44#34 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

I just read somewhere that the vertical wrist angle (extension/flexion) may be even more important than the horizontal one (ulnar/radial deviation). As a result, I have abandoned my old habit of raising the keyboard rests. With a flat keyboard and a Wide mod, I just made a nice test result at Typing Hero, for what that's worth. I think it feels more comfortable now that I'm getting used to it.

Another important observation is that a flatter keyboard helps me float better over the keys, not resting my hands on the wrist rest (just the elbows touch the desk - I'm fortunate enough to have a corner space). This helps speed and still feels comfortable.

I also try to keep my feet in a good position, straight and firmly planted instead of slouching about whenever I'm trying to do some serious typing. I think this helps as well. While surfing the net or suchlike I vary my position more of course.

Using a wide mod on a keyboard that has unchanged QWERTY markings and the index finger nubs in their original positions has proved a bit frustrating at times. On my main keyboards where I've moved the keys it's not been any trouble. I'm now trying it without the right-hand homing nub to see if I can learn to home efficiently without it after all. It's a bit frustrating but I'm not giving it up just yet.

Last edited by DreymaR (26-Mar-2010 14:18:03)

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schorsch
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09-Aug-2010 07:52:40#35 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Hello guys,

does anybody have linux bindings for this mod already? xmodmap or xkb? I'd really like to try it but customizing xkb is not fun ;)

Best,
Schorsch

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DreymaR
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09-Aug-2010 10:12:37#36 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

I never got that far, at least. Sorry.

I'm in a slow process of making something that could translate a mod between platforms, and make images of it as well. But progress is slow because I'm taking my sweet time and procrastinating.

Last edited by DreymaR (09-Aug-2010 10:14:00)

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schorsch
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12-Aug-2010 16:12:06#37 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Too bad :) So I did it myself and I'm currently typing with the new colemak wide layout.

About the implementation:
I did it using xkb under Ubuntu 10.04. If you want to test it go to http://github.com/sotte/colemak_wide_xkb
The Readme is not yet perfect but I'm planning to extend it, add some variants etc. So feel free to try it out and send me feedback.

About the layout:
It's kinda weird that there is no bumper under the indexfinger. Also 'b' and '/' feel counterintuitive. Perhaps I always use the wrong finger to press 'b'.

README:
http://github.com/sotte/colemak_wide_xk … README.rst

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DreymaR
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13-Aug-2010 09:27:17#38 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

See my topic on making your own keyboard for several solutions to the missing bump problem. I think the lack of a bump on left hand is acceptable since that's close to the special keys (CapsLock etc) which gives a homing effect. The right hand is the real problem. I've used a trick on one keyboard and switched the NumPad 5 (has a bump and looks ever so slightly like an 'N' if you push your imagination) with the 'N' key. I never needed a bump on my NumPad.

The placement of the 'B' key is problematic, yes. If you've read the rest of this thread you've come across my own answer to that - the Angle mod which I feel give you more benefit than the simpler Wide mod. But I'd really recommend getting a US ISO board so you can do a proper ISO Angle mod which is far superior in my opinion.

The '/' is something you'll get used to. Not a biggie in my opinion, even if it's probably the biggest hurdle for the Wide mod.

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schorsch
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13-Aug-2010 11:33:59#39 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

My physical layout was still QWERTY. I just swapped the J and K key so that I have a bump for my right index finger and it really seems to work much better. I also changed the mapping for / and b and it's so much more familiar.

I have to use my notebook keyboard (US white macbook, keyboard is not too bad) a lot. So I can't really change keyboard or try the Angle Mod.

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spremino
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26-Aug-2010 09:15:31#40 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

schorsch said:

I have to use my notebook keyboard (US white macbook, keyboard is not too bad) a lot. So I can't really change keyboard or try the Angle Mod.

You can make the mod too, by rotating the bottom left row. Z is not a frequent letter, thus that will impact neither your left pinky share nor your left index same finger frequency.

Dvorak typist here. Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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pinkyache
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02-Nov-2010 13:59:16#41 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Hadn't considered wide layouts because of the hassle. But I think it would suit Dvorak quite well - taking a little load off the pinkie maybe.

A UK keyboard could allow a middle channel of two keys. Think this might benefit a standard sized keyboard as well as a laptop.

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sensille
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11-Jan-2011 13:27:28#42 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

funny thing, I came back to the forum to propose a shift like the one discussed here only to find this very interesting thread.
I'd like to know if anyone here is still using a wide layout of some kind and what the experiences are after nearly one year. If so, which version are you using?

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spremino
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11-Jan-2011 14:02:08#43 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

I'm a Dvorak typist. I'm using a layout similar to the WideISO1a1b posted by DreymaR. I wouldn't either go back to a standard layout or adopt a wider layout. Shifting one column works perfectly for me.

Dvorak typist here. Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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DreymaR
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14-Jan-2011 14:12:33#44 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Spremino: I don't remember exactly how you do it - "similar to"? What are the differences?

I consider the issue of keyboard layouts split into three main stages (four, if you count the initial choice of physical hardware):
- Mapping 'virtual/system scan codes', where you can do stuff like the Wide mod
- Mapping 'virtual key codes', where the choice between Dvorak or Colemak or QWERTY or other flavors comes in
- Mapping state mappings, where you decide what happens if you press, say, AltGr+M or even fancier mappings

Implementations in different operating systems unfortunately mix these stages up a lot.

The name 'WideISO1a1b' is a completely horrible one, by the way. I haven't come up with a perfect one, but I often call it "Angle+Wide shifted" nowadays. The Angle mod is the zxcvb keys (on ISO boards) and the Wide shifted mode is the simplest way of shifting the right hand one key to the right. (I don't think much about the other options these days, except how to best do a similar thing for the ANSI boards.)

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spremino
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14-Jan-2011 14:33:36#45 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

> Spremino: I don't remember exactly how you do it - "similar to"? What are the differences?

@Dreymar: Well, I started jotting down the differences, but this is a classical case where an image is better than one thousand words. But I'm too lazy to draw it here as an ASCII art. I hope we manage to finish the script which draws an SVG out of a layout. Have you checked my answer to that thread? I'm willing to write the code, but I'm not that into reverse-engineering the SVG format. If somebody jumps in and provides directions, we'll have the tool.

Last edited by spremino (14-Jan-2011 14:37:19)

Dvorak typist here. Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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symphonic
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24-Jan-2011 12:22:35#46 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Are there PKL files floating around for the wide and ultra wide layouts yet? I'm getting to much discomfort from using Colemak with a standard setup but I don't want to give up. I'm hoping that these wide layouts will help ease things.

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DreymaR
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16-Feb-2011 13:45:24#47 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Heh, I've had a bundle of laughs trying to get an Ubuntu Linux installation to accept my Wide(Angle) PC105 ergo mod. All sorts of fun with the xkb settings, which I can tell HAVE to be made by beings from Planet X... ;)

My goal which I have now reached, was to implement the ergo mod independently of the layout (Symbols) files. That way, you can move around the keys on your keyboard (physically too if you wish) first and later decide whether to use QWERTY, Colemak or another flavour with it. As I want it. My wife uses AngleWide QWERTY, I use AngleWide Colemak.

I'll post elsewhere a how-to so that other users may benefit should they be interested. Next, how on earth do I use the Overlay1/2 feature? Yay, good feature - if I can get it to work.

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schorsch
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27-Mar-2011 11:43:02#48 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Just a quick update. I'm using the following wide mod for quite some time. I switched the numbers with the symbols because I use them a lot. The interesting part of this mod is the third level.
I remapped Backspace and the right Alt to be level 3 switcher. With a pressed level3 switch

* 'neiu' are Left, Down, Right, Up;
* 'h' is Enter;
* 'o' is backspace
* 'wfprtzxcv' is the numpad (more or less)

This way I basically never have to move my hands in order to do something. And I don't have to remap any vim keys.

      Wide Mod
      ___________________________________________________________
      | ` | ! | @ | # | $ | % | ^ | & | * | ( | ) | - | = | BSp |
      -----------------------------------------------------------
      | Tab | q | w | f | p | g | [ | j | l | u | y | ; | ' | \ |
      -----------------------------------------------------------
      | AlGr | A | R | S | T | d | ] | h | N | E | I | O | Entr |
      -----------------------------------------------------------
      | Shift  | z | x | c | v | / | b | k | m | , | . | Shift  |
      -----------------------------------------------------------
      | Ctr | Wn | Alt | Space              | Alt | W | M | Ctl |
      -----------------------------------------------------------
      
      Third Level:

      ß789  | |             UP 
      ---------------------------------
      "456  | | ENTER LEFT DOWN RIGHT BSP
      ---------------------------------
       1230 | |

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DreymaR
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From: Viken, Norway
Registered: 13-Dec-2006
Posts: 5,364

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07-Nov-2011 14:45:18#49 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Getting back on this here good ole topic:

I've been thinking lately... the right bracket to the left is a bit of a pain. I now feel that I should've moved the left bracket to the middle instead. It'd look better, be a better analogy to the placement of the parentheses and yet preserve keys within their row as well as allow for nifty non-same-finger typing of [] (but in a less backward manner!).

The latest tweak (the 'Wide1b1b') sorts the bracket keys...

The disadvantage would be a slightly less logical rule (the old one was "always move the rightmost normal-sized key of each row in to the middle"). Also, the question of whether the -_ or the =+ key should then move on the upper row would arise. But unless you're using Dvorak there aren't any brackets on those keys. Oh dear, now I've made myself confused again... :o I do believe that in the end the hyphen in the middle would be impractical.

Btw: @Schorsch: Nice thinking with the 3rd level, but I'd like to do it with the 5th level instead! The AltGr for extra symbols is an established and in my view necessary tradition that shouldn't have to be dislodged. I need it for communicating with non-US people, and even if you only want to type proper English you'll need accents and whatnot! Haven't quite figured out the finer points of 5th level magic yet though...

[Update: The empty-bracket digraph [] is okay. The closing-bracket [/ is better than before using the middle and index fingers. It's a bit of a change to swap the national characters I have on lvl3/4 but I'm getting used to that. So all in all it seems okay and logical this way! I write the special character on AltGr+[ using the left hand and the bracket using the right hand so the key is used by both hands.]

[Update 2011-11-30: Hmmm... now I've got myself started again it seems. I'm going to try out the "wide35" mod again, which is more or less what ghen and kalixiri and anyone sane have been using all this time it seems: Brackets in the middle, question mark above the pinky for easy access. Even if some keyboards might not support it fully due to different key cap heights/angles on different rows, it does seem sensible in many ways. Brackets together (and the [] digraph isn't bad actually - and the [/ digraph is a lot better than before!), slash and question mark on the pinky which is more what it deserves and should make transitions to unmodded boards easier? etc etc. We'll see how I fare this time.]

That good 'ole Wide(35) mod, working to keep the family together and sensibly placed...

[Update 1012-07-05: Yup, Wide(35) it is, aka 'AngleWide-Slash'. Been stable for more than half a year now and it still feels right.]

Last edited by DreymaR (19-Dec-2014 11:34:36)

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cevgar
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21-Nov-2011 18:11:02#50 Re: Colemak extra-wide layout. Alternate home position.

Discovered an interesting idea that I thought I'd share with you. I'm calling it the 'Left Over' mod for layout independence reasons, though for Colemak I think 'Bars' would be more appropriate. The premise is that the pinky has an easier time hitting the quote key than the index does hitting the j or b. Using other examples from this thread, here is what it looks like. Diagrams are the same, but the second set doesn't have the key breaks, so its a whole lot easier on the eyes.

Colemak
___________________________________________________________
| ` | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 0 | - | = | BSp |
| Tab | q | w | f | p | g | j | l | u | y | ; | [ | ] | \ |
| BkSp | A | R | S | T | d | h | N | E | I | O | ' | Entr |
| Shift  | z | x | c | v | b | k | m | , | . | / | Shift  |
| Ctr | Wn | Alt | Space              | Alt | W | M | Ctl |
-----------------------------------------------------------

Colemak + Left Over
___________________________________________________________
| ` | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 0 | - | = | BSp |
| Tab | q | w | f | p | g | ; | l | u | y | j | [ | ] | \ |
|    b | A | R | S | T | d | h | N | E | I | O | ' | Entr |
| Shift  | z | x | c | v |BSp| k | m | , | . | / | Shift  |
| Ctr | Wn | Alt | Space              | Alt | W | M | Ctl |
-----------------------------------------------------------

Colemak + Wide Mod + Left Over (ignoring number bar)
___________________________________________________________
| ` | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 0 | - | = | BSp |
| Tab | q | w | f | p | g | [ | ; | l | u | y | j | ' | \ |
|    b | A | R | S | T | d | ] | h | N | E | I | O | Entr |
| Shift  | z | x | c | v |BSp| / | k | m | , | . | Shift  |
| Ctr | Wn | Alt | Space              | Alt | W | M | Ctl |
-----------------------------------------------------------

Colemak + Angle ANSI + Left Over (ignoring number bar)
___________________________________________________________
| ` | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 0 | - | = | BSp |
| Tab | [ | q | w | f | p | g | ; | l | u | y | j | ' | ] |
| BkSp | b | A | R | S | T | d | h | N | E | I | O | Entr |
| Shift  | z | x | c | v | \ | / | k | m | , | . | Shift  |
| Ctr | Wn | Alt | Space              | Alt | W | M | Ctl |
-----------------------------------------------------------

Colemak
___________________________________________________________
  `   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   -   =   BSp  
  Tab   q   w   f   p   g   j   l   u   y   ;   [   ]   \  
  BkSp   A   R   S   T   d   h   N   E   I   O   '   Entr  
  Shift    z   x   c   v   b   k   m   ,   .   /   Shift   
  Ctr   Wn   Alt   Space                Alt   W   M   Ctl  
-----------------------------------------------------------

Colemak + Left Over
___________________________________________________________
  `   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   -   =   BSp  
  Tab   q   w   f   p   g   ;   l   u   y   j   [   ]   \  
     b   A   R   S   T   d   h   N   E   I   O   '   Entr  
  Shift    z   x   c   v  BSp  k   m   ,   .   /   Shift   
  Ctr   Wn   Alt   Space                Alt   W   M   Ctl  
-----------------------------------------------------------

Colemak + Wide Mod + Left Over (ignoring number bar)
___________________________________________________________
  `   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   -   =   BSp  
  Tab   q   w   f   p   g   [   ;   l   u   y   j   '   \  
     b   A   R   S   T   d   ]   h   N   E   I   O   Entr  
  Shift    z   x   c   v  BSp  /   k   m   ,   .   Shift   
  Ctr   Wn   Alt   Space                Alt   W   M   Ctl  
-----------------------------------------------------------

Colemak + Angle ANSI + Left Over (ignoring number bar)
___________________________________________________________
  `   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   0   -   =   BSp  
  Tab   [   q   w   f   p   g   ;   l   u   y   j   '   ]  
  BkSp   b   A   R   S   T   d   h   N   E   I   O   Entr  
  Shift    z   x   c   v   \   /   k   m   ,   .   Shift   
  Ctr   Wn   Alt   Space                Alt   W   M   Ctl  
-----------------------------------------------------------

So anyways, there you have it. The Angle ANSI's B should probably be left where it is, but I was trying to show consistency. Also, I'm working on a narrow mod that overlaps the index fingers, sorta in counterpoint to Workman, so the J and B swaps are pretty important.

... actually, swapping the j and the b so the home row reads jARS would probably be better. Avoiding that nasty ab digraph you know.

Last edited by cevgar (21-Nov-2011 18:17:09)

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