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Colemak via Tarmak

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Does the chrysalis editor allow you to swap what the shifted key represents? I'd quite like to have ' and " on same key rather than ' and @

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Whats your goto method of hitting backspace?

Also, I'm thinking Space, Fun, AltGr would be better than AltGr, Space, Fun for the right hand thumb keys? I don't really use AltGr much (maybe I'm missing something and I should be?) so it seems to be a key with a great thumb position (the best on right hand) that doesn't have much use?

Possibly I haven't set mine up right though and its different to yours?

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Looks very similar to mine apart from cosmetic differences e.g. I have the butterfly as the Extend key.

Yeah, I tuck in my thumb to type numbers. It feels OK to me, but is slightly awkward for combining with the left-edge keys like J and M.
I would like to experiment with different options for symbols1 layer:
- having it as mod/tap where you either could tap it to enter symbols layer for next character only or hold to stay in layer as now.
- having a different way to switch into to symbols layer without holding, for cases where you need to enter a lot of numbers/symbols.
I haven't come up with an optimal solution for that yet.

IMG-20211113-180038.jpg

Not sure about Chrysalis, I presume it's fixed to assume US by default.

Backspace is Extend-H which I find very comfortable and is one of the features I'm most happy with!

I don't have a dedicated AltGr any more - I pretty much never use it. It's mapped Extend-G as a OSM key should the need ever arise.

Last edited by stevep99 (13-Nov-2021 19:16:17)

Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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Ah ok, what are your Fun and Tab keys doing?

I loaded your seniply layout via the chrysalis app and doing that I have tab where you have your Fun key.

I also seem to have AltGr where you have your Tab key.

Is your Tab key actually producing a tab?

Do you ever press the BkSp by the k or do you find it too hard to reach?

The silent box browns really are silent, a world of difference from mx blues on my minila. They don't feel massively tactile to me though.

Do you hit ' with your ring or pinkie finger?

(Thanks for the picture by the way, that's great)

Last edited by bph (13-Nov-2021 20:29:34)
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There seems to be some discrepancy between what chrysalis is showing me with respect to the seniply layout.

For example, Layer 0:

layer0.png

Layer 1:

layer1.png

But for layer 1, when I hit what chrysalis is showing as @ I get " and for # I get £

I get that these are the US/UK differences, but I would expect chrysalis to show me the actual character on the key that gets printed to screen right? Or is my expectation wrong?

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I must have changed my config at some point but forgotten to update it on github. I have just updated now, so if you get it again it should match my current setup.

My Fun key selects the Function key layer (as an alternative to holding Extend and Any)
My Tab key selects the Symbols2 layer (as an alternative to holding Any and Shift)

I've never tried silents, I'd imagine there's going to be a tradeoff between how tactile and how quiet switches can be made. I have the browns which are the intermediate choice. I'd be quite curious to try super tactile ones, maybe blues, but risks being annoying for others when I'm office based.

I use my little finger for '

Chysalis is only remapping keycodes, so despite what is shows in its UI, it doesn't really know what character would be displayed - the actual character printed will depend on the national variant you have selected in the OS. Would be nice if Chrysalis queried the OS and adapted its UI accordingly, but that's probably too much to ask. Mine also shows @ in the Chrysalis UI, but when I type it I get " as expected.

Update: It seems this is a requested feature in Chrysalis, which they have closed despite having not fixed it correctly!

Last edited by stevep99 (14-Nov-2021 14:24:48)

Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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hey thanks Steve. Just pulled that and imported it. Now my layer 0 looks like this:

Screenshot-from-2021-11-14-14-10-42.png

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One observation is that you use the #2 (extend) and #1 (symbols/numbers) a lot more than #3 (function) and #4 (misc) 'shift to layer' keys (I think)?

To that end I've swapped locations of #2 and #3 and also swapped #4 and #1.

My thumbs seem to sit more naturally on the keys toward the inside of the keyboard (key to the left of super and key to the right of enter)

So it looks like this:

Screenshot-from-2021-11-14-20-42-55.png

What could be really nice is to have the #1 key as space for single tap and #1 when you hold it down (I think you mentioned that in a previous comment). Implementing that would mean your right thumb could do almost all its work without having to move!
Done it! It feels pretty natural.. Right thumb can sit on key 43 and generate enter (when pressed with left thumb on #2) , space on single tap and layer #1 (number/symbol) modifier when held down.

another thing that jumped out at me was how nice it feels to have g and m as homing keys, the outward pinky stretch feeling easier than an inward index finger stretch, but that would be an absolute world of pain to learn, effectively learning to touch type all over again :D

It's been a painful weekend for typing, but I can see enormous potential already :)

Seniply really is a nice bit of design, very intuitive..

Last edited by bph (14-Nov-2021 23:04:19)
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Interesting that you prefer the more inner thumb positions. For me, the thumb keys below T and N are probably best, but the ones under G and M feel a bit too far, and I slightly prefer the ones below S and E. This might be a legacy of my Ergo Pro, where the Alt keys (which I was using as outer thumb keys) where below S and E. Or maybe my arms approach at too large an angle, again possibly a legacy of ISO angle-mod typing. Or perhaps I just have short thumbs!

I'm not convinced about the dual-mode space, I experimented with dual-mode Shift/Space long ago and didn't totally like it, although admitedly we are talking about different hardware and a different layer here. I wonder if it might lead to errors as you get faster though, with unintended symbols being typed!!

Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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Agreed that thumbs under T and N are great positions

I think it will be a while before I will get errors through being fast!

Still painfully slow at the moment ;)

dropped to about 40wpm on monkeytype with no punctuation or numbers, 20wpm with punctuation and numbers!

I'm hoping finally learning to touch type numbers properly will pay off long-term though.

I think I need to print off the layers and stick them to the wall in front of me or something for now... so much to learn, so much to memorize

An issue I probably have right now is 'stupid' thumbs in as much as I'm not used to having to be in any way accurate with them, possibly thats the motivation behind me want to stack up keys and have them move as little as possible, maybe this will change over time as they get more dexterous (hopefully)

Last edited by bph (15-Nov-2021 20:28:35)
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good spot on the tap and hold for space and layer 1

It's ever so slightly, fractions of a second, slower to output the space.

But at the same time noticeable.

I've removed it so now its enteralt, space, layer 1, layer 4 for my right thumb

Super, Enter, Fun, Shift, Ext, Ctrl on bottom row left hand

I bought Ctrl and Alt into play in the innermost thumb positions to assist with emacs (also concurs with original atreus layout)

Last edited by bph (18-Nov-2021 00:44:19)
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Are you using those outer bottom row keys much? I find that anything to the left of the S column / right of the E column isn't really usable as a thumb key - thumbs are strong but unfortunately a bit slow and lacking in agility. The only small exception in my setup is the Ctrl key on the far bottom left, which I occasionally still use for Ctrl-click, but I ought try to get out of that habit. Apart from that, I only use max three thumb keys on each side.

Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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No not with the thumbs. You sort of have to switch to ring and pinkie for those keys, but its still not pretty

You have to keep your hand 'small' with the atreus, no stretching out with the pinkie for anything. It is pretty remarkable how little your hands have to move. A triumph of the combination of colemak and ergo. My pinkies are constantly falling off the edge of the board. I need to relax.

Last edited by bph (24-Nov-2021 20:19:50)
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