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    Colemak-DH + b/v swap

    • Started by bombdiggity
    • 7 Replies:
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 12-Oct-2015
    • Posts: 26

    Has anyone played with this?

    This makes a lot more sense to me than 'Vanilla' DH, at least on a matrix keyboard: B is in a better position than V, and it means there are fewer changes from vanilla colemak.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,125

    I don't see how moving V up instead of B consitutes fewer changes? One reason it hasn't been done is that leaving V alone conserves the Ctrl+V shortcut. From a pure typing efficiency standpoint I don't think it matters a lot.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    fewer changes _from_ vanilla colemak. Instead of moving D to V, B to G, V to B and G to D, you just do V to G, G to D, and D to V.

    You lose Ctrl-V but you regain Ctrl-b

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    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 897

    It depends what you mean by "change". A matrix board has already has the bottom row keys in different positions from a traditional board, relative to the home position.

    In Colemak, Z X C V B all move ½u to the left.
    In "vanilla" DH, Z X C move ½u to the left, V moves ½u to the right, B changes rows
    In your proposal, Z X C still move ½u key to the left, B moves ½u key to the right left, V changes rows.

    So it's not really fewer changes IMO.

    Last edited by stevep99 (26-Mar-2021 14:17:34)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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    • Registered: 12-Oct-2015
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    that's not really correct but whatever (I am not comparing to DH, but to colemak).

    Anyway, I was just asking if it's been talked about before. I am liking it quite a lot. It makes it obvious how often I hit V, since that's the most awkward change, it makes the more common letters and it scores better on the analyzer, especially when I tweak effort values for my own opinion (where index stretch inward is more effortful)

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    How does it hold up in analysis on ortho vs row-staggered boards? SteveP?

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
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    DH iso std  1.73528
    DH iso b/v 1.73318
    DH matrix std 1.72621
    DH matrix b/v 1.72526

    B and V are both fairly rare, but B being a bit more common, it does improve the score slightly by swapping B/V. But the corpus is obviously based on typing text  and doesn't take into account X/C/V shortcuts etc. I don't think it's a worthwhile swap personally, but if bombdiggity is happy with it then all to the good!

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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    • Registered: 12-Oct-2015
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    The shortcut doesn't bother me, but I sure notice how many command line utilities I use (e.g. vim) that use 'v'!

    I might switch it back, but I must say that in general I like the DH mod a lot, I just now need to rewrite 5 years of muscle memory.

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